I had a Presbyterian friend ask me if, “emergent baptist,” is an oxymoron like, “upbeat presbyterian.” I told him that I like to call it a paradox since that sort of thing is all the rage these days.
I have had several conversations with folks in other traditions who carry a healthy skepticism about Baptists being able to emerge from much of anything. They have good reasons for thinking so, and we know those reasons and many more as insiders.
I am glad their skepticism is largely unfounded. There are many of us “Baptimergents” out there, and we are gradually finding one another via blog, Facebook, and Emergent gatherings.
Here’s something I’d like to know. How did your emergence begin? Was it a book your read? Was it a nagging feeling inside? Was it a relationship? Was it a theological breakthrough? Was it all of the above? Click the “comment” button and let us know.
29 comments
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May 7, 2008 at 3:40 pm
andrew jones (tallskinnykiwi)
welcome. glad you are here.
May 7, 2008 at 4:41 pm
David Adams
So what are we supposed to do now?
May 7, 2008 at 4:47 pm
pomopirate
studying philosophy.
May 7, 2008 at 5:09 pm
baptimergent1
David,
What do you want to do?
May 7, 2008 at 5:33 pm
PB
Mine was an introduction to a more robust gospel that included more than a sinners prayer…the rest has evolved from that.
May 7, 2008 at 5:46 pm
mel
I hope no one will begrudge me that my “emergence” is new. I hear you emerging folks aren’t like that.
I grew up Baptist but went Mennonite Brethren after I left home. I appreciated the focus on peace and social justice, the emphasis on faith being something lived, not just believed, the openness to the gifting of all members of the community. I’m now back in a Baptist church (for a year now), slowly realizing that I’ve changed so much that I almost don’t fit here anymore…
May 7, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Jason Rhodes
Hey folks,
First off, I’d think Baptists are in a unique position to be able to emerge, with our independent church structure. But that’d be a good conversation to have with you all, which is why I’m glad this place exists and I hope it grows.
To answer your question, David, I grew up in Baptist church in Pennsylvania, of the Mideast Baptist Conference variety. We had a lot of church freedom as a congregation, but it developed into a fairly straightforward non-denom evangelical church and still is to this day. When I left for college, I was part of a C&MA church for a while in State College, PA, before graduating and moving to Baltimore, MD.
While in college, I began to question everything (big surprise, right?). I was studying Religious Studies under some of the most atheistic people I’d ever met, and it was a stretch. For some reason I really can’t explain, it didn’t anger or scare me. I just felt really excited to learn more, and let my faith become what it would become.
In my senior year at Penn State someone suggested I read a new book called “A New Kind of Christian” . . . and that McLaren guy had apparently read my mind. I was completely energized by it, and then I heard that others were denouncing it and preaching against it, etc.
I’ve been floating along the surface of this movement/friendship ever since. About a year ago, my wife and I joined up with a small arts-oriented church plant here in Baltimore called The Light. Come to find out we are affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention, and so here I am, back in the Baptist fold!
Good to meet you all, hope we can have some good conversations about what it means to be a Baptimergent… whatever that means.
May 7, 2008 at 8:08 pm
sgabrave
just wondering…are any of you Southern Baptist or mainly CBF?
May 7, 2008 at 8:33 pm
baptimergent1
sgabrave,
We haven’t really been checking on affiliations per se. Both, and more, are welcome here. (Just is case that is the nature of your question.)
If your trying to connect with more emergent-leaning SBCers hopefully they will “emerge” here.
Blessings to you!
May 7, 2008 at 8:38 pm
baptimergent1
Jason,
You’re exactly right about a Baptist ability to emerge regarding our polity. Tony Jones told a group of CBF folks in NC that we are much more “agile” than other mainline denominations for that very reason.
Big ups for priesthood, soul competency, and local autonomy.
May 7, 2008 at 11:41 pm
bruce robertson
I “emerged” while on the mission field with the IMB, my family and I were doing student work in the U.K. I soon realized that the god I took with me to the mission field was a cultural god and that god didn’t survive very long. Fortunately my supervisor was ahead of his time and allowed me to work through and struggle with my faith. It was also helpful that I was able to spend some time with Brian McLaren on a couple different occassions on his trips to the UK. He was saying outloud what I was feeling, it was incredible. The journey is continuing.
My family and I are no longer with the IMB, but not for any negative reasons, we just felt it was time to do something different. I am finishing up my M.Ed. degree in Guidance and Counseling and will be a Special Education counselor at a high school in Norman, OK starting this Fall.
Do you know of any other Baptist-emergents in this area? I know Todd Littleton in Tuttle but not anyone else, especially in Norman, OK.
May 8, 2008 at 12:16 am
Michael Krahn
We’re “emerging” because we’re in our culture more than previous generations were. We’re part of it, helping to create it… and not condemning every aspect of it.
So for me it wasn’t one book or one set of music… it was the fact that I was reading lots of books that I didn’t totally agree with, sifting them for truth, and adopting what I found… whether that was reading “proper” theology or Chuck Palahniuk… whether I was listening to Third Day or Counting Crows. Where I found truth, I embraced it.
May 8, 2008 at 2:31 am
baptimergent1
Bruce said,
“I “emerged” while on the mission field…”
There is so much truth in that statement. I am convinced that if we stay committed to actually following Jesus and, as Paul said, being transformed by the renewing of our minds, we can’t avoid emerging.
Michael said,
“We’re “emerging” because we’re in our culture more than previous generations were. We’re part of it, helping to create it… and not condemning every aspect of it.”
I like how you put that. You named one of my biggies…sifting through books I was warned to stay away from.
May 8, 2008 at 2:54 am
Will Clapp
My emergent experience actually happened while doing my undergrad. I was talking with a friend of mine in our local wateringhole, (Texas Batist slang for a bar where we are not supposed to be.) and we started to discuss the Church in Baptist life and how we were really fed up with what was going on around us. Kevin is much more well-read than I am and he was beginning to go into theological ideas I had not read. Which is funny considering I was a Bible student and am now an M. Div student, but I was listening more and more intently. Practically hanging on every word.
I see it now as a sort of “conversion” from my own perceptions and expectations of what the Church should be and what I was seeing. I felt a release from the despair that had been haunting me. I had hope again for a new Baptist people who saw Love instead of exclusivity as the real Baptist Ecclesiology.
It was after that that I finally read something “Emergent,” and found some kind of term for myself and my friends. Now I am more than happy to call myself an Emergent Baptist.
May 8, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Chris Cottingham
First off, I agree with Jason and Zach about Baptists having some advantages in emerging, and echo big, big props for priesthood of the believer, soul competency, and the local church. One disadvantage, maybe, is that more hierarchical structures organize faster. But Baptists have always been good at voluntary cooperation. One thing I’d love to see is some sort of “mapping” – some geographical locations of Baptimergent folks, and even congregations – if there are any! And hey, a Baptimergent conference!
About CBF/SBC/other - I posted earlier about an Emergent conversation that occurred at the SC CBF General Assembly last month (which was nice to see). But our Emergent cohort here in Columbia SC has Baptists of both “stripes” (and non-Baptists and ex-Baptists), and I’m sure that’ll be true here too.
Anyway…I suppose in a lot of ways I was primed to emerge because I was always taught to read and think and question – and my questions led me this direction. In college, as a religion major, I was the token conservative. In seminary (this was the late 90s – I chose a non-SBC/non-CBF seminary that was still majority Baptist and strongly evangelical) I was the token liberal. I hadn’t changed much! In both places, whatever their good points, I was frustrated because both sides accused the other of ignoring the Bible, and ignoring the words of Jesus, and both sides were right…meaning both were ‘wrong’. It just seemed to me that both sides represented facets of what Jesus had been about, and both sides mis-represented what Jesus seemed to be about. But just staking out a position in the middle seemed less than a complete answer – it felt like the whole conversation was, hm, an adventure in missing the point.
I felt like an outsider in both camps, and became pretty cynical and bitter about “church people.” After I graduated (yay!) and moved away, I found a great local church where people were free to question, and where we were able to disagree vehemently and still be friends, and where there was a missional mindset groping for expression. A good church family (and CPE) helped me mostly heal.
Then, about 2 years ago, I read A New Kind of Christian, devoured it, started reading other stuff, started trying to find ways to connect with the people that were part of this conversation. My church is great, but mostly older, and while they “get” the freedom to question and the missional impulse, there are so many ways (mostly structurally) that they’re frozen and inhibited. (A church of 50 members with 12 ongoing committees???) In the Emergent/ing conversation, I’ve found folks who aren’t just ok with allowing me to ask my questions – they’re asking them, too. Which has been great – for awhile I thought either I was the only sane one, or I was the only crazy one. Now I have company, and community.
What I’ve also gotten through discovering the emergent conversation is hope. Emergent types were asking my questions, but not giving the same kind of bitter, cynical answers I gave in seminary. They spoke with hope of something new(many of ‘em, anyway!), something with integrity, something really dedicated to walking the Jesus way…which has helped me find my way again, too.
May 8, 2008 at 6:01 pm
baptimergent1
Chris,
I love the mapping idea. I’m gonna see how we can do that. I think I’ll look into a widget or page that allows us to register our info.
I have gotten several requests or questions about gathering, and have kicked that notion around from the get-go. Look for some blogs to that effect in the near future. I am glad to see an impulse for connecting, but lets take our time and develop something with some meaningful and worthwhile content.
Many of us could give a hearty “Amen” to the fact that we have more than enough things to attend on our calendars. We’ll get there…especially at the rate our little community is growing.
May 8, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Jess
It is interesting to think about how I came to realize that I was Emergent. I guess that it really began in Seminary. I have grown up Southern Baptist my entire life and have to say that I do have a love of where I came from, but as I began Seminary (at a SBC School) I began to question what was beign taught and if these things applied to the people I knew and the students that I was working with at the time. This was the beginning of my “Emergence”.
It is interesting because I have now moved and don’t attend a Baptist church (which feels strange to me) but I am still at the Seminary and I get on people’s nerves sometimes with my questions and thinking outside the box.
May 8, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Chris Cottingham
Zach,
totally agreed about not rushing a gathering - just wanted to put it out there.
Jess, I had to laugh at your last line about getting on people’s nerves with questions - I had seminary classmates tell me to stop asking questions in class, because the professor was the authority and we just needed to learn what they said and not “waste time” with questions.
May 9, 2008 at 12:49 am
Michael Krahn
“”I felt like an outsider in both camps, and became pretty cynical and bitter about “church people.””
I think this should be one of the qualifications in our constitution.
May 9, 2008 at 1:21 am
baptimergent1
I second that. Do we need two thirds to ratify it? ; )
May 9, 2008 at 3:58 pm
IMR
Here’s something I’d like to know. How did your emergence begin? Was it a book your read? Was it a nagging feeling inside? Was it a relationship? Was it a theological breakthrough? Was it all of the above?
I come from the BBFI (Baptist Bible Fellowship International). Very conservative group, like most Baptists. I had a nagging feeling inside me. I knew something was wrong with…everything, but I couldn’t articulate it. I’m younger (only 23) and a young Christ follower (just a little over 3 years, though I grew up going to fundemental churches with my dad once in a while). My thinking just never matched up with theirs. I am from another generation and just couldn’t relate to most of what they were saying. I first read “Blue Like Jazz” by Donald Miller,” then “Velvet Elvis” by Rob Bell and then I read “Generous Orthodoxy” by Brain McLaren. McLaren’s book(s) really “pushed me over the edge” (I couldn’t think how else to say it) and really got me “emerging.” I’d say a relationship with my Pastor and a theological breakthrough both played in as well, but in more gradual and suttle ways. I am slowly breaking away (or emerging) from the fundemental framework to the point that I am leaving my school (Boston Baptist College - http://www.boston.edu). I am going to continue my education, no doubt, just not here.
May 10, 2008 at 1:48 am
Chris Cottingham
Wow - big scary stuff, IMR - way to go.
May 10, 2008 at 3:55 pm
astatum
I think the idea that baptists can’t “emerge” comes from a few common (but largely unfounded) misunderstandings that many people outside the baptist tradition(s) hold. One of these misunderstandings is that we’re all bare-footed, snake handling fundamentalists who hate homosexuals, black people, jews and everyone else who’s not baptist (I hear jokes to this effect from the Presbyterian pastors at the church where my wife - a baptist - is a youth minister). On the other extreme end of the spectrum is the propensity of some folks to lump baptists into the “mainline” crowd (Tony Jones even does this in “The New Christians”). In short, most people are woefully ignorant of the fact that there are over three hundred different baptist groups in the United States alone. Add to that the various incarnations of “baptist” throughout Europe, Asia, and the global south, noting the extreme diversity of tradition(s) and teaching(s), and you’d be hard-pressed to find another group more suited for “emergence.”
With all that said, I’d have to say that the diversity of Baptist Christianity was probably what helped me to begin “emergence” - that and my general frustration with the supposedly monolithic baptist voice of the Southern Baptist Convention. As I explored various baptist churches (and other churches as well) I began to discover that there are baptists who appreciate Quaker, Catholic, Anabaptist, and other traditions’ theologies and spiritualities and that there are more ways to be a baptist Christian than I previously knew. Also, I think the writings of Lesslie Newbigin, Thomas Finger, Donald Miller, Stanley Hauerwas, and Stan Grenz gave me the theoretical/theological tools to begin thinking about my faith in ways that have aided in my “emergence.”
May 11, 2008 at 10:36 pm
baptimergent1
Andrew,
Grenz and Newbigin were big catalysts for me early on as well. “Proper Confidence” and “Postmodern Primer” were the first two books I read that spoke of faith and theology in a way that articulated what was in my heart and mind.
I think the propensity for folks to place Baptists in various and sundry camps comes from the fact that we can fit in them all. As you said, we are, and have always been, an extremely diverse crowd. I would argue that our agility or adaptability comes from our origins as separatists. We originated in turbulence in search of authenticity and freedom. As a result, our founding doctrines were set down to preserve those things. These values were extremely evident in Baptist leaders of the colonial era. Few know of this because of the revisionist project of latter day Southern Baptist/Evangelical leaders.
Baptists, like all reformation and separatist traditions, are emergent in origin and by nature. But, as Phyllis Tickle likes to say, we’ve allowed a thick crust to form over our tradition so that it has become more institutional and mechanical, and less organic. Baptimergent is an attempt to live and express a less “crusty” Baptist identity.
May 16, 2008 at 8:26 pm
David
i think i have told various people completely different answers to this question. 8 years ago i was almost scary in my devotion to ideology. I hated everything that wasn’t ‘right’. I was becoming dangerously fundamental. I’m going to explore the details of all this a bit further on my own space I think.
In a few words, my own emergence is happening because of the influence in my life of truly loving friends who come from a variety of religious and ideological backgrounds. I had questions swimming in my brain at the same time that I was getting more involved in my local church. I questioned the wrong things and was put in ‘detention’, so to speak.
very angry and disillusioned with the people that were supposed to be ‘right’ i started searching for others asking my questions and was directed toward mclaren and others.
I’m skipping lots here. I had the opportunity to bounce some things off Chris Seay about 3 years ago. That was a huge help, hearing his journey. Just in the last year or so I have really become conversant with a larger emergent community with very recent opportunities to sit down with both Tony J and Dougie P. All these conversations have had the effect of energizing my passion to engage locally and help form a community that is creative and reflective of the kingdom of god.
The long-short is a massive hopefulness that defines my Christian life and future dreams.
June 15, 2008 at 4:13 am
Cathy Anderson
I’ve described the process as collecting puzzle pieces in my pocket for years without knowing what the picture on the lid of the box looked like. I just keep seeing random pieces on the ground, picking them up, and hoping that one day they will make sense.
When did I begin to emerge? Maybe it was at camp when I was 15 and realized that the leaders were manipulating people into “believing in Jesus” by scaring them out of hell with thoughts of unforgivable sin and damnation.
Maybe it was the first time I read “A New Kind of Christian” and thought “are you kidding me - there are other people out there asking these questions?”
Maybe it was sitting in worship in Aspen auditorium in 1993 and feeling the Spirit move in a way that was inexplicable in my normal little SBC life experience.
Maybe it was the day I realized that giving up on a local church and giving up on Jesus are NOT the same thing.
It very possibly was the day I heard presbyterian pastors speaking at the Mainline/Emerging Conversation in Jan of 2007 - they used the phrase “recovering from church” and I thought - please God, get me some of that!
I’ve recently been using the phrase “I don’t know and I don’t care” in a rather sarcastic (probably unhealthy) way. But today, it fits. I don’t know and I don’t care when it started for me. I do thank God with every cell in my body that it started. I pray that He who began this good work in me will not stop….
June 16, 2008 at 12:19 pm
baptimergent1
I’ve found the question of emergence is most often asked by folks who are emerging themselves. I’ve had my share of “grillings” by students ad church-members alike who are “concerned” about my theology. That’s a reality one has to be used to as a Baptist. I’ve stopped resenting it and see it as an opportunity to liberate a brother or sister…or at least scatter the seeds of emancipation. ; - )
June 23, 2008 at 2:27 pm
catphish
I’m still not sure that I understand, entirely, what people mean when they say “emergent.” I became a Christian after 19 years of absolute despair (I lived a hard, messy life as quickly as I could), and I joined a large SBC in 2004. I love my church, and I love the message, but I can’t help but feel that there has never been enough emphasis (in any church I’ve attended, SBC, Catholic, Non-denom, whatever) on the passive, peace-filled, gentle, loving words of Christ. Not that these things, the very nature of Christ, are ignored or denied, but that they are sometimes overshadowed, or pushed aside. I’ve never felt, in my church, that stereo-typical fire-and-brimstone-you-better-straighten-up-or-hell-will-getchya! sort of thing. Grace and Forgiveness are big topics in our church, but I do see (and I am not trying to be judgemental, just observing) some level of complacancy, of privilege, all around me. And I can’t help but feel like we are missing out on Jesus. I feel like we all (me, too) could use a little more humility, could stand a little more sacrifice, and could show a little more compassion.
I’m doing Beth Moore’s Daniel study, and reading “The Irresistible Revolution” by Shane Claiborne, and these two things together (while they don’t necessarily agree) are pushing me further and further into the Word and I feel, for the first time, like I am seeing a tiny piece of God’s plan for us, and it doesn’t look anything like what I thought. It’s terrifying, and yet I feel so free. Does that make since to anyone? I feel like I’ve been asleep and now I am waking up in a whirl-wind and everywhere around me, God is moving. Is this what you mean when you say “emergent?”
June 23, 2008 at 2:38 pm
baptimergent1
Catphish,
I think you’ve put forth one of the best descriptions of emergence. We’re not talking about learning some new way of being Christian, we’re talking bout waking up to things that status quo Christianity in the West has forgotten, by-passed, or ignored altogether.
Some of us have been burned by brimstone, some have been through the ringer of denominational politics, some have grown weary of seeker-sensitive worship, some want more than self-help religiosity….you get the picture. We’re all coming from different locations here.
I believe emergence is a part of any living thing. Organic creatures don’t stay the same…neither does organic faith.
Glad you stopped by!