Frank Shaeffer laid a pretty harsh smack-down on the fundamentalist sub-culture within evangelical Christianity. For this installment of “Gnaw on this,” I want to know what you think.
Is the ideology and spirit of fundamentalist Christianity as dangerous as Shaeffer proposes? He seems to assume a progression that could lead to their actualizing the very “armageddon” they believe in. Do you think that’s possible? Has fundamentalist Christianity moved from “crazy uncle” status, to “armed & dangerous?”
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September 17, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Jo Ann Goodson
I am not certain if things are as bad as stated in this video. However, I do have some of the same fears. Everything seems to be blown out of proportion as it relates to Obama. Where are all the voices that elected him president in all of this. My email inbox includes 3 or 4 republican and almost fundementalists church friends of mine and a few of my relatives that think in similar fashion as Mr. Shaeffer shares with us, but quite as bad. One really good friend likens Obama to Hitler as he has the ability to sway others to believe as he does and for her that is a very bad thing. She is in my church. I am so tired of getting these emails and to think that some of what is stated in this video is in my church (although a very small minority). It is so scary for me. It’s great that Frank Shaeffer has turned away from this type of thinking but what he says scares me. Do we just go around it? Nothing we can do? What really scares me are the smoking guns. I do not want to loose a good president like we did Kennedy. I did not grow up in a fundamentalist family or church, although a baptist church, and I am so very grateful. My environment both family and church was even then missional and loving. The years in my current church have been the same way for over 50 years. I am indeed most fortunate. However, I was then and am now surrounded by the “other.” Knowing what to do on a daily basis as I have conversations with people as Mr. Shaeffer tells us about, is tricky to say the least. I do not like their position but I like and love them. The tide must be turned in some way, but HOW? I only know that I really pray a lot as I am scared but also know that there are many others like me that want the best for this country and I think that is our current president and what he is trying to do. The air is filled with electricity that is not good. We need more praying and loving energy spread around to counteract this bad influence.
September 17, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Skye Leslie
When Ronald Regan embraced the likes of Jerry Falwell and brought the Religious Right into a shoulder to shoulder relationship with the White House, he planted the seeds of weeds which now will not go away. The religious right has grown a vast root system throughout government agencies and with government personalities across the United States.
What had been reason for celebration in this country, the celebration of church and state, was erased by the Regan Administration and subsequently the last Bush Administration. Frank Shaeffer is correct. The evangelical right is working their way toward Armageddon and anything less than that is not on their agenda. It is why for so long evangelical Christianity has ignored the ecology and takes such a firm stand on the support of Israel – no matter what the Israeli government proposes or the fact of legitimate claim by the Palestinians.
For months, I’ve wondered why the evangelical right has driven me particularly insane over the health care reform issues. Until I finally realized Mr. Shaeffer’s point. This group of people has no interest in discussing facts or working through issues in a rational way. Quite simply because that kind of reasoned behavior does not match up with their agenda.
And . . . ironically, as long as we continue to try to reason with them, provide them with scientific and evidence based reason – they feel we prove their point in our opposition to them. They feel they are suffering “righteously” for Christ.
It is a terrible problem and I have no idea of a solution except that the Republican Party distance themselves from the religious right and they won’t because they refuse to give up that sector of votes.
Thanks for bringing up this worrisome issue.
Sincerely,
Skye Leslie
September 17, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Skye Leslie
the line “celebration of church and state” should read “SEPARATION of church and state.
September 17, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Jo Ann Goodson
Skye, thanks. You have shed more light on this subject for me and I think you are absolutely right. Right now at the local level conversation must go on and much prayer !!! Some make light of prayer but I know for a fact that it makes a difference. It changes the energy around us and this world to a positive force and the more folks around this world that will join us in prayer means a greater expanse of positive energy. God is that enerygy.
September 17, 2009 at 5:45 pm
toddh
I think Schaeffer loses a little bit of credibility by sounding pretty bitter towards his former intellectual and spiritual home. He is certainly right to be concerned about some of the beliefs of religious conservatives, but he’s also pretty cavalier about tossing around the “evangelical” and “fundamentalist” terms. There are certainly some that are pretty wacky and will never change their wacky views. But, I also know that there are plenty of thoughtful evangelicals who have begun to shift their positions on issues and who have begun to see some of the problems of blind faith in the Republican party.
September 18, 2009 at 12:21 am
Zach Roberts
toddh,
I think you make a good point about Shaeffer’s vitriol. I was a bit surprised. I must confess concern that both sides are in danger of radicalizing one another, and ultimately losing themselves in the process. Either side of this debate would be well served to cease feeding themselves on fear and anger.
September 19, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Jim
Religion necessarily needs a small absence of reason.
Those who wish to Govern a country must be reasonable and pragmatic in most everything they do.
The problem here isn’t just the theology of the fundamentalists, its this unholy union between religion and politics.
I am just as afraid of emergents linking arms with political progressives as I am these fundamentalists and their blind allegiance to unfounded drama.
As Christians we may sense that our kingdom values have a place in political ideology, but we should never throw ourselves entirely into support of anybody, any movement, any political thing.
September 21, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Zach Roberts
Jim,
You’re right. There is a point at which emergents could perpetuate the same cozy partnership that we so vehemently oppose in the religious right. I think much of this comes from the bad habit of looking to political leadership to solve problems, rather than owning the possibility of a new future ourselves.
September 19, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Jo Ann Goodson
Jim, so how do we get around this? I supported Obama, talked to people to try and get them to vote for him. I support the Emergent movement because I believe in it, I support and try to pursuade folks that it is a good thing. This is done by me because of my beliefs and Christian values. Simply because the “right wing” were wrong, in my opinion, about the way they did things, making Christian values the only criteria for electing anyone, I still think all Christ followers should be as involved in finding the people we think are the best candidates and try and get them elected. This is done by individuals not a particular church, or faith body. For me that keeps the “church” and state separated.
September 25, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Tom
MSNBC–the network of tolerance? “bufoons” “crazzies” “stupid” “bred to deny facts” Ya, this is great journalism.
September 26, 2009 at 2:09 am
Jo Ann Goodson
Tom, would you please help me to understand your comment by say whether you are agreeing with the video and/or our comments or just being cynical, etc. Thanks, Jo Ann
September 29, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Patrick
May I reblog this on my blog?
http://www.unrelentingstreamofconsciousness.blogspot.com
September 29, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Zach Roberts
Yes! By all means. Thanks!
September 30, 2009 at 2:17 am
David Gladson
Is this the son of the late evangelical Francis Schaeffer?
September 30, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Zach Roberts
Yes it is.
October 15, 2009 at 6:10 am
Soul Crushed
While Rachel Maddow is hardly a credible expert on the subject, the modern fundamentalist movement has been slowly swallowed up in superstitious spiritualism for years. Thankfully, the Gospel rises above and trudges on undeterred – even by its loudest self-appointed defenders.
November 12, 2009 at 2:13 pm
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